Debate rages on church billStamford Advocate
.....The controversy Monday took on a partisan tone.
"Democrats have crossed the line between church and state," GOP Chairman Christopher Healy said.
But last year, former state Rep. Claudia "Dolly" Powers, a Republican from Greenwich, pursued similar legislation. Powers said she submitted a proposal on behalf of constituent Tom Gallagher, a driving force behind the bill now pending before the Judiciary Committee.
"If a constituent has an issue and they bring it to any legislator, that's part of your job," Powers said.
She said she filled out a request form for the proposal to be raised in committee during the 2008 session. But it never went anywhere.
"It just died," Powers said.
McDonald said Gallagher first shopped the legislation in 2007, but it was too late in the session for the Judiciary Committee to act. In 2008, "we were swamped" with a debate over a law to increase penalties on violent offenders, McDonald said. He said he discussed the proposal last year with members of the Connecticut Catholic Conference after Powers submitted the legislation.
Powers, who did not seek re-election, said she felt badly that McDonald is taking so much criticism. But she declined to give her opinion on the proposal.
"I'm not going to go there," Powers said 2
COMMENT #1
It Is All About Who You Know In Greenwich
Greenwich Roundup Die Hard Catholic Readers Are Saying That....
No Tom Gallagher is registered to vote in Greenwich, but he was able to get Ex -Greenwich Representative Dolly Powers to get this proposal advanced.
These same Catholic readers of Greenwich Roundup are sending more and more details on this mystery man leading the Connecticut General Assembly around.
These angry and worked up Catholics are pointing out that Tom Gallagher was involved in shutting down the Greenwich wiffle ball field, but this has nothing to do about accountability in each of the town's Catholic Churches.
Greenwich Roundup Sorry To Disappoint His Die Hard Catholic Readers, But Greenwich Roundup Agrees With Attorney Tom Gallagher 100 Percent.
It is about time that someone stand up to these bullies. Priests seem to do whatever and whoever they want...and get away with it.
Regulating the financial activities of any organization is a legitimate function of government. Just because the organization is a church does not make any difference. It is not as if the government is legislating liturgy or faith, just money.
COMMENT #2:
Fiscally Irre$pon$ible Bridgeport Bi$hop Rallie$ Greenwich Flock To Fight Respon$ible Accountability Measure$
Why Doe$ Bi$hop Lori Fear Tran$parency
And Openne$$ Of Church Financial Matter$ ?
Committed Greenwich laypeople, provide pretty much all the financial resources to their local Catholic Church and have no say in how that money is spent.
If this legislation had already been in place, the Catholic Church would have avoided much of the financial fallout from the sexual abuse scandals, containing the financial responsibility to individual parishes
Local Parish's Would Be Responsible For The Behavior Of Their Local Priest.
Local Church Trustees Might Not Look The Other Way As A Priest Pulls Up In A New Jaguar Showing Off His New Carrier Watch And Talking About His Lavish Travels And The Lunch He Just Had At The Four Seasons
There is no chance whatsoever of the Institutional Catholic Church making a change in this direction without pressure from somewhere outside the Church
This Bill Would Strip Priests Of Sole Financial Control Of Non-Profit Funds And Shift It To A Board Of Directors Composed Of Church Parishioners.
The Greenwich And State Press Outlets Are To Afraid Of A Catholic Bishop Backlash To Fairly Report That.....
This Bill In No Way Restricts Any Ones Right To Practice Their Religion
Poor Financial Controls Allowed A Million Dollars Intended To Help The Poor To Go To Un-Godly And Sinful Waste.
God Wants Us And Church Leaders To Be
Fiscally Responsible With Church Funds.
Jesus Tells The Story Of The Boss Who Gave Money To His Various Servants And Went Away For A Week. When He Returned He Was Pleased With The Servant Who Increased His Master's Wealth. He Punished The Servant That Hid The Money And Did Nothing With It.
Jesus Told The Story Of The Prodigal Son Who Was Wasteful With His Money.Although He Was Forgiven And Accepted Back Into The Family, Misusing His Inheritance Led To Great Misery.
Perhaps Bishop Lori Should Listen And ....
"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”
(Matthew 22:21)
This phrase has become a widely quoted summary of the relationship between Christianity and secular authority. The original message, coming in response to a question of whether it was lawful for Jews to pay taxes to Caesar, gives rise to multiple possible interpretations about whether it is desirable for the Christian to submit to earthly authority. Interpretations include the belief that it is good and appropriate to submit to the state when asked, that spiritual demands supersede earthly demands but do not abolish them, or that the demands of the state are non-negotiable.
Separation of church and state
Jesus can be interpreted to be saying that his religious teachings were separate from earthly political activity. This reading finds support in John 18:36, where Jesus responds to Pontius Pilate about the nature of his kingdom, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” This reflects a traditional division in Christian thought by which state and church have separate spheres of influence.
Jesus asked his interrogators to produce a coin in order to demonstrate to them that by using his coinage they had already admitted the de facto rule of the emperor, and that therefore they should submit to that rule.
Bishop Lori Should Go Dig In His File Cabinet And Look For That His Church's Non-Profit Corporation Papers And See That Big Fat Connecticut State Seal On It.
Then He Should Go Pull Out Those Non-Profit Tax Reports That He Files With The State And The IRS Every Year.
If The Government Wants A little Bit More Financial Accountability From A Non-Profit Church Then Bishop Lori Should,'Give Unto Ceaser What Is Ceaser's"
A Christian might be against the war and might not wish to aid the war effort by paying war taxes to the government. Doing so only helps to strengthen and perpetuate the war machine.
Romans 13:1 “Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God.”
If the law of the land is that everyone must pay war taxes then that is what we must do. It is the law! We should however, work and pray extremely hard to change the law. The ideal situation would be to have the law abolished. The alternative would be to have a choice of designating our portion of the war tax towards efforts of peacemaking. This route would be a more lawful, constructive and positive effort.
Actually, Greenwich Roundup Studied This Issue In A Harvest Time Church Class, That Featured Preacher John Bevere, Last Tuesday. The Harvest Time Church Class Was About Honoring Civil Authorities.
Believe It Or Not There Are Some In That Class That Suggested That I Am Not Respectful Enough Of Local Civil Authorities.
Some Have Suggested That I Do Not Show Proper Respect For This Offices Of Local Authorities And Wonder If I Pray For Them And Their Families As They Serve Our Community.
Well They Have A Point And I Am Reconsidering My Approach To Reporting.
This Week The John Bever Class Is About Honoring Your Employer, Which Is A Piece Of Cake For Greenwich Roundup, Because He Is Self Employed.
Fortunately, The John Bever Class For Honoring Church Authorities Is Not For A Few More Weeks, So I Will Continue ....
On Thing I Like About Harvest Time Church Is That The Pastor Is Removed Blind To Who Donates What To The Church. The Church Board Has Set Things Up So That The Pastoral Staff Has No Idea Who Gave Six Bucks Or Gave Six Figures.
This Is Done So That Everyone Is Treated The Same In The Church.
Every Year Two New Trustees Are Elected To The Church Board And Two Trustees Leave The Church Board.
If A Major Purchase Is To Be Made By The Church, Then The Church Calls A Business Meeting Is Called And The Matter Is Debated. This Was Done Last Year When The Church Voted On Buying A New Piece Of Property.
Last Wednesday Harvest Time Church Held It's Annual Meeting And Greenwich Roundup Received A Bound Detailed Financial Report With Certified Accounting Statements And Reports From Every Church Ministry And Activity.
Because Of These Fiscal Controls, Greenwich Roundup Knows That When He Gives A Buck To Harvest Time Church About 25% Goes To Reach Out To The Poor.
Actually, Greenwich Roundup Is Proud To Be A Member Of A Church That Gave Over $500,000 To Missions That Help The Poor.
Greenwich Roundup Has Never Lost A Minute Of Sleep Worrying That Harvest Time Pastor Glen Haverson Will Skim $1.4 Million From The Church Offering And Set Up A Secret Bank Account That To Support A Lavish Lifestyle And An Affair With A Lover. If Greenwich Round Up Knows That It Is Impossible That Pastor Glen Can Traveled Throughout The World And Frequent The Four Season and Ritz Carlton Hotels. Drove A Jaguar, And Purchased Cartier Jewelry With Church Funds.
But All Of These Horrible Things Could Happen Again On Bishop Lori's Watch, Because He Is Resisting The Biblical Principal Of Financial Accountability.
I Will Now Get Off My Soap Box And Close With One Last Thought
Being Born A Jew And Knowing That A Rabbi Can Be Asked Any Question In The Temple I Always Get A Kick Out Of Reading The Four Gospels
I Always Admired Jesus’s skill in thinking on his feet.
With the above parable, questioners tried to trap Jesus between the horns of a dangerous either/or question, and he deftly gave an answer that meet the question head-on.
In another incident (Matthew 21:23-27, Luke 20:1-8, Mark 11:27-33), Jesus reverses the roles — putting his critics between the horns of a dilemma when he asks “John’s baptism — was it from heaven, or from men?”:
They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Why didn’t you believe him?’ But if we say, ‘From men,’ all the people will stone us, because they are persuaded that John was a prophet.” So they answered, “We don’t know where it was from.”
Being A Jew Who Loves To Argue All I Can Say Is ..... That's Too Cool
PLEASE ALSO SEE:
Connecticut bill on Catholic Church nearly identical to Voice of the Faithful strategy
Catholic News Agency
Catholic News Agency
Hartford, Conn., Mar 10, 2009 / 11:35 am (CNA).- Catholics around the country are upset over a new bill in the Connecticut Senate that, in the words of the Archbishop of Hartford, "forces a radical reorganization of the legal, financial, and administrative structure of our parishes." The bill, which bears resemblance to Voice of the Faithful’s Strategic Plan, is being supported by Dr. Paul Lakeland, who believes that in this case it’s appropriate to use state legislation to force the Church’s hand.
Dr. Paul Lakeland, Fairfield University Chair of Catholic Studies, Voice of the Faithful member, former Jesuit Priest, and author of several books including “The Liberation of the Laity: In Search of an Accountable Church,” recently discussed his support for Connecticut’s controversial Bill No. 1098 with CNA. Dr. Lakeland is also scheduled to testify before the Connecticut General Assembly on behalf of the bill.
The premise of the bill is remarkably similar to the 2009-2010 Voice of the Faithful Strategic Plan. “The VOTF,” as Dr. Lakeland explains, “grew up in response to the sex abuse scandals here. One of the things that became rapidly apparent, among both liberals and conservatives, was the sense that the bishops hadn’t done a very good job of handling this.”
Explaining his connection to the bill Dr. Lakeland said, “I’m connected to [the bill] to this degree: I’ve been working pretty closely with Tom Gallagher, who’s a Greenwich businessman, who has been behind the push to get the state government to do something about this. Even though, I don’t think, even he was involved in putting the legislation together.”......
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